Ongline #163 Churchy Homosexuals

5 Comments

Mark on June 26, 2006 at 11:07 pm

Great podcast today. I can only say that you are a tease, whore! I kept waiting to actually hear from the biship!! ah well, I guess i can wait til thursday

John Ong on June 27, 2006 at 8:18 am

LOL! Sorry. You know I record everything live. So, when I thinkg it’s too long, I’m not gonna edit stuff down. Oops. It will come on Thursday! 😀

Martin on July 4, 2006 at 11:26 am

Hi John,

I am one of the “silent” listeners – so far. But finally I found some impetus to write some words and thank you for many happy hours with your podcast. I am too lazy myself unfortunately. Just wanted to let you know that you have a listener in Austria (nope – not Australia 😉 ) that enjoys listening to your views. Having an Asian boyfriend (in East Asia unfortunately) myself I found some of your stories very familiar. Thank you!

Cheers
Martin

John Ong on July 4, 2006 at 11:29 am

Martin,

Thank you for writing. I know the feeling of laziness, trust me. Especially as a listener. But thanks for taking the time to write in. Thanks for the kind words. And no matter who we all are, there is always something we can all connect. I hope what I’m doing on my podcast is in some way a connection to you. 😉

Lisa (American Baptist & Gay) on July 11, 2006 at 2:12 pm

For those who take the Bible literally . . . and forget it was written by man, at a particular time in history, addressing particular issues of a particular culture in a particular locale of the world . . . there are verses called out against homos exuality. However, one must remember it was a common practice of the more wealthy of the time to keep “pages”, slave boys for purposes of personal pleasure, possibly against their will. The bible never addresses mutual loving relationships between two people of the same gender.

Old Testament:
Genesis 19:

Leviticus 18:22

Leviticus 20:13

From Good Ol’ Paul in the New Testament:

Romans 1:21-27

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

For those who take the Bible literally these verses seem to clearly condemn homosexuality and homosexual practice. But is the Biblical evidence really that clear? For instance, was the town of Sodom condemned because the men in it were gay (bisexual probably) or for other reasons? The town had already been sentenced to condemnation before the angels had arrived (see Genesis 18:16-33) but on what basis? In Leviticus also we need to understand the context of the condemnation of homosexual practice. Immediately before Leviticus 18:22 we read, ‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech’. Molech was the name of a Cannanite god. Both Molech and the Cannanites do not exist today. This passage seems to be primarily intended for a specific people and time in history (which is now gone). Does this mean that the condemnation against homosexuality is also limited to a specific time in history (which is now gone)? If not, what is the basis for choosing some verses in this passage as being still applicable today and not others? Furthermore, is the condemnation only against homosexual practice (‘to lie with a man’)? Can one be a non-practicing homosexual and still remain faithful to the Biblical teaching? Finally, are those who take a literal reading of these verses going to advocate (or fight for) the death penalty for homosexuals (‘They must be put to death’)?

It is only Paul who has anything significant to say about homosexuality. This is a striking feature for surely if homosexuality is so abhorrent to God then one would expect to find Jesus, God’s Son (actually God on earth), making a comment on this issue. Hmmm . . .. Interestingly . . .Jesus had nothing to say about the topic.

Thanks John. Keep Podcasting!

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Mark on June 26, 2006 at 11:07 pm

Great podcast today. I can only say that you are a tease, whore! I kept waiting to actually hear from the biship!! ah well, I guess i can wait til thursday
John Ong on June 27, 2006 at 8:18 am

LOL! Sorry. You know I record everything live. So, when I thinkg it’s too long, I’m not gonna edit stuff down. Oops. It will come on Thursday! 😀
Martin on July 4, 2006 at 11:26 am

Hi John,

I am one of the “silent” listeners – so far. But finally I found some impetus to write some words and thank you for many happy hours with your podcast. I am too lazy myself unfortunately. Just wanted to let you know that you have a listener in Austria (nope – not Australia 😉 ) that enjoys listening to your views. Having an Asian boyfriend (in East Asia unfortunately) myself I found some of your stories very familiar. Thank you!

Cheers
Martin
John Ong on July 4, 2006 at 11:29 am

Martin,

Thank you for writing. I know the feeling of laziness, trust me. Especially as a listener. But thanks for taking the time to write in. Thanks for the kind words. And no matter who we all are, there is always something we can all connect. I hope what I’m doing on my podcast is in some way a connection to you. 😉
Lisa (American Baptist & Gay) on July 11, 2006 at 2:12 pm

For those who take the Bible literally . . . and forget it was written by man, at a particular time in history, addressing particular issues of a particular culture in a particular locale of the world . . . there are verses called out against homos exuality. However, one must remember it was a common practice of the more wealthy of the time to keep “pages”, slave boys for purposes of personal pleasure, possibly against their will. The bible never addresses mutual loving relationships between two people of the same gender.

Old Testament:
Genesis 19:

Leviticus 18:22

Leviticus 20:13

From Good Ol’ Paul in the New Testament:

Romans 1:21-27

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

For those who take the Bible literally these verses seem to clearly condemn homosexuality and homosexual practice. But is the Biblical evidence really that clear? For instance, was the town of Sodom condemned because the men in it were gay (bisexual probably) or for other reasons? The town had already been sentenced to condemnation before the angels had arrived (see Genesis 18:16-33) but on what basis? In Leviticus also we need to understand the context of the condemnation of homosexual practice. Immediately before Leviticus 18:22 we read, ‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech’. Molech was the name of a Cannanite god. Both Molech and the Cannanites do not exist today. This passage seems to be primarily intended for a specific people and time in history (which is now gone). Does this mean that the condemnation against homosexuality is also limited to a specific time in history (which is now gone)? If not, what is the basis for choosing some verses in this passage as being still applicable today and not others? Furthermore, is the condemnation only against homosexual practice (‘to lie with a man’)? Can one be a non-practicing homosexual and still remain faithful to the Biblical teaching? Finally, are those who take a literal reading of these verses going to advocate (or fight for) the death penalty for homosexuals (‘They must be put to death’)?

It is only Paul who has anything significant to say about homosexuality. This is a striking feature for surely if homosexuality is so abhorrent to God then one would expect to find Jesus, God’s Son (actually God on earth), making a comment on this issue. Hmmm . . .. Interestingly . . .Jesus had nothing to say about the topic.

Thanks John. Keep Podcasting!

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